the downgrade

[para]

wow thanks colin. coming from you that means a lot.

the thing about the ad781 is that it needs the negative or it seems to skip every other cycle of hold  (this is what about the first 25% of the throw of the starve does) so running on a single would require something closer to your setup. which is great btw. you know when bugs was explaining all of this to me he pointed out that finer/smaller cap values were essential to lowering the bleed. i remember that being a small issue you mentioned about your design. maybe mess with that a bit. having a good single 9v design around would nice. if you did do a small simple run of them you could keep the costs down and they would fly fast.

surprisingly very little pop with the switch and really only with certain sounds it seems. i was considering using a drain resistor (is that what its called?) to keep the pop low but it doesn't really need it.

and thanks again for the links and advice, for that matter thanks for the board, the archives, and everything else.  
 


cloud, as i think i said before analog /com will ship your stuff 2nd day for free, so you could start populating your board and getting prepped, but it is a weekend so hopefully first thing next week.



steven

[expanoncolin]

wow thanks colin. coming from you that means a lot.

the thing about the ad781 is that it needs the negative or it seems to skip every other cycle of hold  (this is what about the first 25% of the throw of the starve does) so running on a single would require something closer to your setup. which is great btw. you know when bugs was explaining all of this to me he pointed out that finer/smaller cap values were essential to lowering the bleed. i remember that being a small issue you mentioned about your design. maybe mess with that a bit. having a good single 9v design around would nice. if you did do a small simple run of them you could keep the costs down and they would fly fast.

surprisingly very little pop with the switch and really only with certain sounds it seems. i was considering using a drain resistor (is that what its called?) to keep the pop low but it doesn't really need it.

and thanks again for the links and advice, for that matter thanks for the board, the archives, and everything else.  

Smaller cap values where?  I need to revisit that design and add an envelope control too it.  Envelope controlled sample rate reduction must be hot.  Or I should just suck it up and do real DAC so I can do bitcrushing too.  Once I get the design 100%, with the envelope and all and probably an LPF, I will (hopefully) sell some.  Are all of yours sold?

-Colin

[caress]

ok!  i think i've got it...one more question, though!  
the output tip has wires going to both the board out from the ad781 and to the 3pdt?  if so i think i totally understand...haha

[para]

you can see here: http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/bo ... bugcrusher

and here http://bugbrand.co.uk/images/circuits/r ... _proto.gif    

where c2 in the osc/clock of 40106n is? this is where bugs said it would get the rest of the bleed down to an almost inaudible level. he original had it at 100p which is still in his old scheme above. but all it really does ( i believe anyway ) is just allow it to raise to a higher pitch then we humans can hear so it just seems like it gone? it still meters on my analog console so i know theres something there. bugs is a madman.

so what would that be on yours i guess c4? maybe try and reshape the pulse a touch and lower the c4's size (22p on bugs) to raise it up past 22k? just wild guess’ also is your x3 just amping your clock a bit? and is that your own design?

http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/di ... rusher.gif


-

caress - yes i think you've got it. also the feedback loop will come off of that pin too. then back through a pot to the + in jack.  try different sizes depending on whether your using a preamp or not. if so, use something bigger like 250k to 500k. if no amp then maybe 20k to 50k whatever works i guess. so do you have it running yet. let see it.

[caress]

ok i do get it   sorry for all the questions!  i haven't even built it yet i was just drawing myself up a new layout based on the mods and the switch, etc...  i'm going to add a blue clipper onto the front end as a sort of disorty preamp (maybe) and i'm going to try to add a lpf to the back.  i'm thinking of trying the cd4007 lpf in colin's archives...has anyone here tried this out, though?  if not i'll prob use the filter circuit from the WSG.  thanks for all the help para.  great design ideas... and t-shirts too!

[para]

oh and adding a env fol and lpf would be cool. i haven't really dug into env followers much i have them in gear (the lexicon vortex is amazing) but i haven't made any. there are probably some simple ones around. maybe one that you can invert so it will react in the opposite direction so with a louder signals it will reduce, then flip the switch and have the quieter signal reduce and the loud clean. that would be very cool.

also you could add a real dac and the reducer and the lowpass and the evn fol all together, maybe even modulation and give the sonic alienator a run.


i still have three left, one fell through i think. i just finished the rest of boards and have the rest to mount and wire up.

[caress]

i've thought about that env fol idea about inverting it...very nice.

[expanoncolin]

so what would that be on yours i guess c4? maybe try and reshape the pulse a touch and lower the c4's size (22p on bugs) to raise it up past 22k? just wild guess’ also is your x3 just amping your clock a bit? and is that your own design?

http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/di ... rusher.gif

C4 sets the range of oscillation-changing it's value would make it oscillate from, say, 30khz to 300hz rather than, say, 20khz to 200hz as it does. But the pulse wave would be the same.  I don't really want to change the range, I think I will have to null the pulse otherwise.  It is really the hard/fast action of the pulse wave that gets the bleedthrough going (and perhaps slightly mismatched bias with the FET).  X3 is not ampling the clock, the two op amps on the bottom form the oscillator (one creates a square wave, the other shapes it to a pulse with the diodes).  This design is mine, yeah.  In future designs, I would definitely amp up the input a couple of times, then have the opposite factor on the output (IE -10 gain on the input via inverting amplifier, -1/10 on the output via another inverting amplifier) because then I could reduce any bleedthrough to 10% of its normal level, or perhaps even lower.  But I imagine in the end there is some magical component or configuration for hooking the clock up to the FET that will reduce the clock noise even more.  I will be playing with that circuit in Jan.  

oh and adding a env fol and lpf would be cool. i haven't really dug into env followers much i have them in gear (the lexicon vortex is amazing) but i haven't made any. there are probably some simple ones around. maybe one that you can invert so it will react in the opposite direction so with a louder signals it will reduce, then flip the switch and have the quieter signal reduce and the loud clean. that would be very cool.

also you could add a real dac and the reducer and the lowpass and the evn fol all together, maybe even modulation and give the sonic alienator a run.

i still have three left, one fell through i think. i just finished the rest of boards and have the rest to mount and wire up.

I think we're not on the same page about the envelope follower-I mean the same rate would be envelope controlled, IE, for louder signals, you'd have a higher sampling frequency (or yeah a switch too to make it louder signals give a lower sampling frequency).  I think that would sound amazing, I don't know of a product (or plugin!) that can do that.  Its nice because it gives a nice crunchy ring mod effect but you don't ahve to worry much about the frequency as far as musical notes go, like you do with a ring mouldator... envelope controlled ring mods are very unmusical but I think this would sound brilliant on just about anything.  The LPF is definitely an idea taken from the frostwave though.  Both things create that kind of sweeping down sound... together they sound wonderful.  LFO control would be nice and sounds cool like on Bug's model, but I don't think it's quite what I'm after... plus, you run out of knobs after a little while!

Hopefully we won't have to compete with one another.  Yours is more of a sweet distortonoisemaker, anyways, with the starve control and all.  That thing is raunchy on drums.  I guess I'd be going for more of a shimmering, perhaps even pretty, effect, with that feature set.

-Colin

[para]

right you want that range to go just pass 22k so its out of human range and thus no bleed on the clear setting. the pulse would be using a cap to ground in a more common osc. so your clock is weird i haven’t seen anything built like that. it has modulation in the x4 section instead of the cap to ground like the others?


no i was just saying that i like env fol's in general. i haven't seen one with a crusher or reducer.


"compete with one another" not with me, maybe bugs. i might do a small batch of a version 2 after these 10 are gone, maybe some kits because i keep getting asked, but after that i'm moving on. not sure about mr. bugs? i'd guess and say he will be building them for a while. if he wants to work something out so i can do more and not feel like a thief then i might be cool with that, but its not my design you know, so it feels weird. i would much rather be doing something i came up with myself. that said the bugcrusher is exactly what i had been looking for for a long time and i couldn't resist. especially with bugs being so cool about letting me sell a few. if i did more i would want to cut him in at the very least.


only 2 left now,

steven

[expanoncolin]

right you want that range to go just pass 22k so its out of human range and thus no bleed on the clear setting. the pulse would be using a cap to ground in a more common osc. so your clock is weird i haven’t seen anything built like that. it has modulation in the x4 section instead of the cap to ground like the others?

It is the same kind of dual OA oscillator (triangle/square) you see everywhere, the diodes just turn the wave into a pulse wave.





The oscillator I have built in does go above human hearing range, which does null the clock out completely... but not when it's within hearing range, I'm afraid.

-Colin

[para]

i think i should just shut up, as i'm not really helping at all. just thought i would throw some ideas out there. the only other thing would be to lower the clock volume as much as possible just before it stops responding, but i'm sure you have already done that. or a magic trick like you said. maybe double the output of the clock and send the second post s&h and invert it so it will phase/cancel its double out? but there i go again just crazy ideas from someone that doesn't really know shit, so take it for what its worth. probably nothing.

[expanoncolin]

i think i should just shut up, as i'm not really helping at all. just thought i would throw some ideas out there. the only other thing would be to lower the clock volume as much as possible just before it stops responding, but i'm sure you have already done that. or a magic trick like you said. maybe double the output of the clock and send the second post s&h and invert it so it will phase/cancel its double out? but there i go again just crazy ideas from someone that doesn't really know shit, so take it for what its worth. probably nothing.

A balanced type noise cancelling technique like you're talking about might work... an interesting idea, but I think it'd end up being pretty complex!  I'll see what I can sort out in a month or so.

-Colin

[bugbrand]

Just to clarify the BugCrush design with respect to bleed ---->>>>

The AD781 is a track&hold amp rather than sample & hold - ie you need very narrow trigger pulses to get s&h operation (otherwise the input signal is tracked while the trigger is high) - therefore I tacked a simple pulse width part onto the end of the clock osc - its basically a lopass filter which couples with the IC2B schmitt trigger to give a mighty narrow pulse train (IC2C then inverts it again for correct polarity). How did I get to 22k & 22p? Pretty much trial and error! The orig circuit idea comes from the MusicFromOuterSpace MickyMouseLogic document - says don't go too low with the resistor value - 100p gave bleedthrough, so I started reducing that - 10p proved too small and didn't allow operation, so 22p became the best choice. As I said, most of this is down to the operation of the AD781, so I don't know how exactly it'd work for colin's design (which I've not had a chance to really examine)

And, of course, 'cos this comes from modular designs (do check the VC schem too) its very possible to graft on anything else like wierdy modulations (clocked sample & hold should be good) or filters etc.

Best to you all, I'm rushing rushing.

[cloudscapes]

Hey all,

Both the bugcrusher and nyquist aliaser have been quite interesting for me. I have parts for both, but am putting the nyquist aliaser on hold for the moment, the schematic is confusing, my feeble brain can't seem to find V+, In or Out on there (I tried my guesses but they don't work).

I'm finally going to have a go at the bugcrusher today. The shematic is very clear, though I have one question. In the upper-left corner, the V+, GND and V- have two "leads", an "X" and an arrow. I don't at all understand the logic for this. Since they are both the same thing, isn't one enough? Or is there something I'm missing?

[bugbrand]

Aye, don't worry about it - the extra Xs are just the schematic layout in the Eagle software - you can basically ignore these, they're just pcb pads for power connections (on the pcb, also in eagle..)

Enjoy - simple sonic fun fun fun.!.